I know how you feel. I’m doing some customer support in my job. Our team approach is that we always pay a lot of attention to bugs and questions. If a question repeats a lot, we think how to improve UI to decrease friction. New features, however, are lower priority. This makes some people annoyed, but you can’t reliably build new stuff on top of old bugs. We need to be assertive a lot.
The difference is that folks here feel anonymous so they let their "good behavior" guard down, they vent and have nothing to loose. In a workplace setting this is a bad strategy that could result in being fired. I think the way to reduce self-propelling negativity is to have a support form and maybe chat.
Windows cleanup takes a few minutes and has the option to leave files, so that's not a problem. I don't know what devices you have, but TP-Link, NetGear, Microsoft, Apple, Samsung, the first question they ask when reporting a problem to software support will be "have you tried a factory reset?" Nobody is forcing you to update the software with a reset, but when you update the software and have problems, the first thing you should do is to do a factory reset, not contact support. Especially if you are using a beta version or are moving from an older version of software to a newer version of software.
When we ran customer betas at my company the last thing we wanted participants to do was immediately reset when they ran into problems.
Removes any chance of troubleshooting the issue to understand what settings/configurations they had that blew things up. Reset just throws problems downstream and leaves support w/no option other than "Reset your device," which I can tell you from call data (and my own personal experience) really pisses off customers... No one wants/expects to have reset their device when a FW/SW update is delivered. You need to be able to troubleshoot problems w/the FW/SW update process during the beta to determine root cause and decide which ones you want to fix and which ones you're going to allow to live in the field.
And tell me, why waste time troubleshooting a problem that results from an update from a final version to a beta version? If the bug disappears after a factory reset?? A software update between versions that differ slightly, containing only code fixes, will certainly work. But do you really expect an update from op21 to op24 to work 100%??? Or an update from 4.6.x to 4.7.x containing changed, extended or completely new plugin functionality? That won't work. Only in desktop programs, but... even there, when you install a program update, the installer uninstalls all the software, leaving the configuration file, this is easy to do in a regular desktop program, but not in the device firmware.
I never said you troubleshoot everthing...what I said is you don't follow a path where if things work after a reset you can ignore the issue. You said "...the first thing you should do is a factory reset..." I disagree w/that approach, as it hides issues that can bite you big time in the field if you release an update that 1) Disables your customers devices, even temporarily; and 2) The only known fix is to reset the device. Customer loyalty killer.
The last thing you want in a time of increasing security issues across the entire internet, is to create a reputation for releasing updates that screw up users' systems, 'cause then users start delaying/avoiding updates and they are exposed to more security risks.
Also disagree..."simple means" is a subjective measure...your simple may be well beyond my capapbilities/knowledge w/routers. Report the problem, along w/what you did to fix it, and let the dev team decide what they feel is worth fixing.
I think we need to agree that we're going to disagree...no harm, no foul.
I disagree with you. A public beta is available to all who want to test the new firmware version, still in development.
For those willing to risk some malfunction, when they do the upgrade from 4.6 to 4.7, they may encounter some problems with keeping settings
But if you apply the “reset before all update” , what will happen when final version be published?
Users will install it keeping settings as expected because nobody want to reset for an update, and there’ll be bugs non fixed by the developers because of the “reset settings first” rule .
For example : Synology when the released dsm 7.0 after years of development, didn’t ask every nas owner to reset the whole nas, loosing configuration and data.
They just warn that it will take time to migrate the configuration and tell which settings/apps cannot be kept, or need a repair action or a reinstallation.
I update my nases from 6.x version to the last 7.2 version , keeping my settings.
And there were majors changes between 6.4.x and 7.0 , and again between 7.0 and 7.1 , and 7.2.
This whole speech is only to point the fact that with public beta, keeping settings must be take in account.
So in my opinion, even if for the beta it’s preferable to reset before upgrading, it’s useful to test without resetting the settings because that’s what will expected with the final build.
But you know that Synology has a bootloader that removes the old software version, then installs a new one, and restores the basic system settings? After switching from version 7.1 to 7.2 I had a problem with the network, 2.5 Gb ports randomly became 1 Gb ports. You won't guess how support solved my problem... They told me to do a factory reset without wiping the data.
Which means the error was in my configuration files. I always saved the settings from DSM6 to DSM7 it was ok but from DSM 7.1 to DSM 7.2 it failed.
I'm just saying that GL.iNet is a user friendly company, they solve and help solve problems that can be solved by doing a hard reset. In my opinion it's a waste of time. Other companies like Synology, Netgear immediately ask "did you do a hard reset?". If not, do it and tell me if the problem still exists. Only after you do it or "say you did it" do they help you. Companies like BT, EE in the UK if you report a problem they reset your router to factory settings remotely and don't ask if you agree to it.
As for the software itself and the fact that the user doesn't need to know everything, that's true in a way. But companies like NetGear are also changing their approach in this matter and you won't install the latest XR500 router software simply through regular updates, so if you don't know how to do it because the instructions for this process are too confusing for you, you won't have it and no one in the company cares... Not to mention that the beta testing of the new software lasted 2 years
So really don't complain about the work of GL.iNet, because it is one of the better companies in terms of software development and speed
I totally agree with you. I can confidently say that the development and related support of GL.iNet routers are the best in class.
The "T" company guys I've encountered are mostly not smart and even are arrogant. Not only on the forum but also business sales in the official local branch. They don't keep their promises and easily break delivery schedules or firmware improvements. Never care about business customers who order "only a few hundred" units. Their only interest is in contracts worth at least hundreds of thousands of dollars.
There are also a completely different leagues where the cheapest product is thousands of dollars, but they're not always better. I can guarantee that their products will have bigger problems if a customer updates firmware oneself carelessly. (Although it's rare for a random customer to update such products themselves) If it's bricked and the support license which costs more than the product price was already expired, then it could be literally a brick forever. Even a simple email support might(likely) be declined.
So, I don't know how can complain much about GL.iNet for such a long, free, unlimited support of such cheap products. There are ongoing updates for products that would have EOL long ago by other vendors. Firmware improvements are much more active than the competitors but really issues are much less. The development and code seems pretty well done.
I wonder if anyone could introduce a better vendor. Please PM me if know a vendor which supplies such versatile and stable turn-key routers for this cheap while has better(or at least comparable level of) support. I already own dozens of GL.iNet routers and spent more than a dozen of hundred dollars, but I can consider to switch for next purchase. But I've never heard.
I'm not saying that GL.iNet is so much perfect or the best in all perspectives. It's true that there are many things that have to improved. I just never found any comparable competitor, especially for the software development and related support.
my first routers where tp-link wrt1043nd well these where so bad
The wifi had a ancient issue of always disconnecting, then i went to a linksys EA6350 when openwrt increased the flash requirement, but that one had also small issues i believe it was something with the kernel size and upgrading.
Then i found gl-inet, and first started with a mango and i was so impressed about the ui, that i liked more gl-inet devices
it was always a bit of a gamble to find a good openwrt compatible router every router had its quircks also had a redmi ax6s just for experimentation next to the Flint 1 (that ax6s is very complicated one), but compared to gl-inet you get the most upfront support.
Maybe still not perfect due to open source side of things being slower at adapting to newer chips, but you get much better hardware than having a router which is openwrt supported but nobody actually actively maintains it and checks on bugs, then you are delivered to maybe one maintainer which may is in absence.
I believe that tp-link now was fixed, but i believe that was like 2 years later, yea... never want to have such nightmare wifi again.
sure flint 2 also had its issues, but to be fair nothing came close to my tp-link
Im glad gl-inet exists and thankfull to the developers for making such usefull ui and products👍, sometimes it can be intuitive to learn what one setting does and how it reflects to luci to learn more about openwrt.
I believe that tp-link now was fixed, but i believe that was like 2 years later,
They're still same, and will same. Released firmwares are often unstable, buggy, have numerous critical issues. When they eventually comes to be stable after years of patience, now it's EOL and no longer able to get any updates.
This is really just the tip of the iceberg. There are too many problems that I could spend all day talking about, and so many are remained for years. And yes, I'm talking about their Omada "business" routers. I never experienced their "home" or "Wi-Fi" routers.
The worst part is, I can solve almost nothing myself because TP-Link doesn't provide any way to get privilege beyond the default interface.
I wouldn't say this is absolutly worse or better, I respect their decision and might be makes more sense since they're targeted SMB market. But the problem is, their firmware is a total mess that even difficult to use normally. Root privilege is really "needed" to use their routers, but blocked.
On GL.iNet routers, root privilege is available by default so freely able to do anything.
Sorry for off-topic rant. Despite those, I'll continue to buy TP-Link routers too, because each has own suitable use. Just I really don't like their crude software quality and related support that is almost useless.
it can be intuitive to learn what one setting does and how it reflects to luci to learn more about openwrt.
THIS!! I appreciate GL.iNet to keep accessibility and compatibility to (L)uCi and this is the primary reason that I love GL.iNet routers. It never going to easy and may largely increases dev and CS issues by edge cases.
